tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post4498386253519840769..comments2024-03-18T09:22:11.316-04:00Comments on OPERA OBSESSION: Goethe, Gounod, and FaustLucyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02549302523503271428noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-25392509569008375372011-11-29T08:54:55.379-05:002011-11-29T08:54:55.379-05:00schlecht, I mean, d'oh.schlecht, I mean, d'oh.Micaelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17424063023952527613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-27213701721031448672011-11-29T08:52:27.395-05:002011-11-29T08:52:27.395-05:00Ah well, you're not going to find too much on ...Ah well, you're not going to find too much on the music. When I was looking for my aestheticist hat in the closet I first put on my Schenker analyst one by mistake and immediately yelped out "Gounod ist schlect! Keine Urlinie!" His stock isn't so high with those types...<br /><br />I wouldn't recommend spending too much time with Robert le diable. You'd never imagine that a ballet of debauched nuns could be so boring.Micaelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17424063023952527613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-1582314106943522512011-11-29T00:09:52.178-05:002011-11-29T00:09:52.178-05:00@Zerbinetta Don't apologize! Now that you ment...@Zerbinetta Don't apologize! Now that you mention it, genre <i>is</i> a glaring omission of the post, sorry. There are some considerations of the music from Schraeder and from Egon Voss, but Huebner was the most thorough source I found. I didn't mean to go mystical about "composer's intentions"; lack of familiarity with Meyerbeer and boundless enthusiasm for Romanticism, cultural history, etc., led me into tempting byways of analysis and speculation. Now I guess what I need to do is get my hands on a recording of <i>Robert le Diable</i>. Hier stehe ich...Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02549302523503271428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-30945491614615981362011-11-28T20:29:35.873-05:002011-11-28T20:29:35.873-05:00Sorry, you have hit upon one of my favorite topics...Sorry, you have hit upon one of my favorite topics and I have to be that annoying interlocutor who says, But you have Left Out my Work on this Subject. Constructing intention in these things is a messy business! Your analysis considers Faust both as a socially constructed text of 19th-century Zeitgeist and one where Gounod is interpretively in charge. Fair enough, but the text is also the product of operatic conventions and expectations. Of course now we can do with and interpret Faust as we see fit, but when you're rummaging around for interpretative pay dirt I think it's a mistake to include the body social and that mystical thing known as the "composer's intentions" without giving the mediating powers of genre a very prominent place as well.<br /><br />Why choose Faust? Well, the religious and demonic stuff sure worked well for Meyerbeer so why not some more of that kind of thing?Micaelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17424063023952527613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-66306125605337602812011-11-28T09:09:27.029-05:002011-11-28T09:09:27.029-05:00@stray It can! Today is hectic, but sometime today...@stray It can! Today is hectic, but sometime today!<br /><br />@Zerbinetta I was really surprised by the lack of material on the opera as well. Thanks for the clarification on Walpurgisnacht! I don't mean to assert that Gounod is concerned with the same things as Goethe. But I do think there's room for a production to try to examine the "whys" of all Gounod's dysfunctional relationships. I've been steeped in a reading list on European ideas of gender in the long 19th century lately, though, so maybe I've been seeing it through that. The libretto of the opera sticks close to de Nerval's translation for a good bit of it, and what I want to know is, if you're just going to have a revue of Romantic and religious claptrap (great phrase) <i>why choose Faust</i>? Why turn it into the parable (parody?) of Marguerite's "fall" and "redemption"? Sigh. I want it to have to mean <i>something</i>. (Insert remark about wishes, horses, beggars.)Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02549302523503271428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-44896797212222132672011-11-27T20:05:47.908-05:002011-11-27T20:05:47.908-05:00@Lucy, if this can be done without hassle, yes ple...@Lucy, if this can be done without hassle, yes please and thanks very much! samizdat2007[at]gmailstrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109343770835869181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-32837939158036611562011-11-27T18:09:42.284-05:002011-11-27T18:09:42.284-05:00Interesting post! I have some questions, though! I...Interesting post! I have some questions, though! I agree with Sarah-Maria above, I think you have to be careful in shoveling so much Faustidee into Gounod. Or even quite so much Gounodidee into Gounod for that matter. I'm going to put on my seldom-used aestheticist hat for a second and ask how much metaphysical weight do you think the opera can sustain? Huebner (hilariously we both ran towards the same book, I read him last week, he's really all that's out there) is totally right to specifically point out how it's one step away from boulevard theater, it's superficial. <br /><br />The McVicar production works so well because it takes the piece for what it is--a revue of Romantic and religious claptrap with some really effective bits that never really cohere--and doesn't try to add the kind of philosophical/ontological dimension that Goethe has but Gounod does not. So in an academic sense I think this reception history is interesting but when getting down to stage the thing I would proceed with extreme caution when it comes to making Gounod anything more serious than the Cabaret d'enfer and a bunch of nasty ballerinas lost from Black Swan.<br /><br />BTW regarding the Walpurgisnacht--McVicar puts his Great Sluts of History onstage before the libretto has them. According to the opera text they only arrive in the ballet proper, McVicar or his choreographer made up the whole Giselle parody bit. The ballet is a separate number, it's simple to just leave out and so go the strumpets.Micaelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17424063023952527613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-59269710717184120402011-11-27T17:24:32.605-05:002011-11-27T17:24:32.605-05:00@stray The article is "Ein Verbrechen wider d...@stray The article is "Ein Verbrechen wider die Natur? Musikdramatische Interpretationen von Kindsmörderinnen und die Theorie von der 'Natur der Frau'" in <i>Geschlechterpolaritaeten in der Musikgeschichte des 18. bis 20. Jahrhunderts</i>, 75-86. I hesitated over the word 'rationalized'... Herr's contention is that, in the work of Cherubini and Gounod especially, Medea's and Marguerite/Gretchen's actions are not presented as "unnatural," but as responses to external, social pressures. If you want a PDF of the article, let me know.<br /><br />@shapta-dakini This is an advantage of having hooked my mother on Jonas Kaufmann--an excuse to invest in real tickets! I will be sure to report in full. Thanks for stopping by.Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02549302523503271428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-6332394519863882612011-11-27T16:45:36.482-05:002011-11-27T16:45:36.482-05:00Lucy, I knew we could depend on you to be there on...Lucy, I knew we could depend on you to be there on Tuesday....... will be thinking of you with grateful envy from what, for now, is the Wrong Side of the Atlantic...... Have a great evening.shapta-dakininoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-40027628268902155862011-11-26T23:56:27.888-05:002011-11-26T23:56:27.888-05:00Hey what's the Corinna Herr citation, and what...Hey what's the Corinna Herr citation, and what does she mean by "rationalized"? (I ask because the popularity of the neonaticide theme goes beyond the operatic stage, and the constructed narrative - fictive or otherwise - is almost always identical. [read stray wrote a paper on this awhile back and still has skin in the game])strayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109343770835869181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-45487289327227006952011-11-26T23:29:37.161-05:002011-11-26T23:29:37.161-05:00@Christie What fun! There's a visually strikin...@Christie What fun! There's a visually striking F.W. Murnau film version that you might be able to find in libraries (or on Netflix) if you're interested. A YouTube hunt would probably get you much of the McVicar, too. The <i>Phantom</i> excerpt seems more aware of the issues at stake in the story than many adaptations, which intrigues me. I'm presuming you've read Goethe at least once? If not, treat yourself!<br /><br />@Sarah-Maria I agree that, for how closely it keeps to the content of Part I in many ways, the drama has been changed a lot. I love the Goethe, but I'm getting to like the opera too. :) Thanks for commenting!Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02549302523503271428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-3429950431619604242011-11-26T19:46:52.019-05:002011-11-26T19:46:52.019-05:00I don't think, that there is much Goethe in Go...I don't think, that there is much Goethe in Gounod's Faust, but I like this opera anyhow.... ;)Sarah-Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12824953618628145868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2665236978084294968.post-55413454431974910892011-11-26T15:18:34.068-05:002011-11-26T15:18:34.068-05:00I'm doing a lot of reading on the subject of &...I'm doing a lot of reading on the subject of "Faust" before seeing the HD broadcase (including the libretto, as the subtitles here are in German), and like you, am very interested to see how the McAnuff production. I'm sure you'll give us a lovely review next week: I'm looking forward to it. Also, that Phantom clip? Sexy.Christiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08276355652503715188noreply@blogger.com